Journey, let's be frank!!!

Volume II in the Let's Be Frank series, created by Frank, with special guest star Gideon.

All right, so my father and I have VIP tickets for Journey's show in Louisville, Kentucky, on the 21st. Usually, Journey concerts are pretty much the highlight of my year and was psyched about the last three: the 30th Anniversary tour with Augeri (in which I did not notice lipsynching, but I probably wasn't paying enough attention), the show with JSS and Def Leppard, and last year's Nashville concert with Arnel. Loved each and every single one, with last year's concert getting the slight nod.

This year? I'm not as psyched. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I'm not enjoying what I've seen so far. Not as much. Arnel hasn't been doing bad at all, in my opinion, but he does seem a little more fatigued and tired, like he did towards the end of last year's tour. Still solid vocals, but not the limitless energy I've been spoiled with.

"Wildest Dream", which is quite possibly my favorite song to hear from them live, seems different. Again, not bad, but I am starting to notice the slight shift in momentum from the detuned vocals. Not to mention that they put Cain on rhythm guitar for the entirety of the song (rather than for just the chorus like last year), which does nothing but give him less to do. The prerecorded keys sound unbelievably cheesy. I saw a video of them performing the song in Reno and Cain was at the keyboards the whole time playing them -- but with a guitar around his neck -- it's like between him and the management, they couldn't make up their collective mind as to which he should play.

The biggest problem with that video? "Wildest Dream" features powerful background vocals, and neither Cain nor Ross were singing. I realize it's prerecorded backing vocals, but they could at least give the appearance that they're singing along. Meanwhile, it's down to Deen and Neal, and it's painfully obvious the two of them aren't singing the layer-upon-layer of backing vox.

As part of Neal's campaign to turn Journey into a metal band, "Wheel in the Sky" has turned progressive and is kicked up another notch. That's fantastic; I love the new guitar jam interlude after Neal's first solo which is rumored to be the riff to "My Hometown" by HSAS. Where the song goes wrong is the apalling lack of subtlety. The memorable intro to the song (which seems to be echoed in "Change for the Better") has been dropped entirely, and Neal forces the band to enter the metal-zone at breakneck speed. I love Neal and I love the solos, but I don't want Journey to become too heavy at the expense of the artistry in the song. Neal could do without the second solo.

The current pattern of WitS is the shortened intro-vocals-chorus-vocals-chorus-first solo-awesome jam session-second solo-chorus/solo-outro/solo.

...That's ridiculous. They also butchered "Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin'" (which was shitty to begin with). I love Neal, but I'm getting tired of his habit of trying to turn every single song into an impromptu jam session. Less is more, Neal.

The better pattern of WitS should be original intro-vocals-chorus-vocals-chorus-guitar solo/jam session-chorus-outro. The song could stand to lose a solo or twothree.

"Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin'"... leave it alone. Leave it out of the setlist all together. It's a cosmic disaster, so many better songs to use. Not to mention Neal, it was written solely by Perry. Let's try to remove ourself from the man's solo outings, please. Hell, you might as well throw "Oh Sherrie" in there.

"Be Good To Yourself"... this seems to be hit or miss for Arnel; either he's perfect or dreadful and I'd rather not run the risk. It's an incredibly demanding vocal, the backing vocals suck, Jon's synths suck (not as sharp), and the only redeeming part of the song is... the Neal solo... which (again) he could stand to lose.

"Never Walk Away"... is not nearly as great as it once was detuned.

Other than some major problems with a handful of the songs and the fact that Neal is using every single opportunity to try to indulge in shred masturbation, the rest of the band seems relegated to side duty. Jonathan Cain is apparently on rhythm guitar more than he is on the keys, which would be tolerable if he didn't play a grand total of three chords; Neal seems to want to play lead guitar and rhythm guitar. If you put a guitar in Cain's hands, then let him play. Period. The end.

And I'd like to tell Ross that he's in a rock band. If he can't summon a modicum of stage presence, rather than walking off to his corner beside Deen's drumset like a scolded infant, then he needs to retire to make room for some fresh blood. I'm not expecting much, but come on.

Say what you want about Jon. He may not look like he's having the best of times, but he works the stage and tries to interact with the rest of the band.

Other tipsdemands:

- More Revelation songs. According to MR.com, the last concert featured "Never Walk Away" and "Change For the Better." Two. Two. Which is utter bullshit. I'm not saying that you have to discard the Perry-era tracks, but if you're going to fellate your new singer and prance around talking about being "reborn" and how "this is just the beginning!" then you need to cram as much new(er) material as possible into the setlist. What's that mean? New = TBF and on. It would be great if you could at least feature one song from all of the post-Perry efforts, with a handful of Revelation tunes. You did reasonably well last year and the beginning of this year, so you know the audience is satisfied and tickets will sell. Don't be bitches and cop out.

- "Dead or Alive" needs to go. You have an obligation to throw in as much of the dirty dozen as possible to please your fans, so don't waste the precious few obscure shots on the Perry-era. You could have tossed in something like "The Time" or "I Can Breathe" or, God forbid, "Higher Place."

- Ballads and mid-tempo tracks. Yes, Neal, it's what Journey's famous for. You can't get rid of them all. I wholeheartedly approve of Journey's concerts being heavier, since they are a rock band first and foremost and concerts should not be snoozefests. So pick some decent ballads: "I'll Be Alright Without You," "Girl Can't Help It," or, God forbid (again), "If He Should Break Your Heart."

- Neal's solo: Neal, since you have so much feature time throughout the setlist, unless you're playing the National Anthem or an actual song, don't include a solo. If you want to jam on your own, throw in an instrumental track featuring everyone: "Into Your Arms" springs to mind.

Anyways, I figured I'd vent and see how many people agree or disagree...

Seems like a very honest assessment.

I think many people are tired of the entire thing, including the band.

Journey fans in the past have always been a staunchly loyal, vocal and swag-purchasing bunch.

INMO, the band made a big mistake when they started blatantly disregarding their fans.

It seems that they did not care - kinda like, "We will bring in the new guys and he will bring new blood and new fans" - all of which is very true.

However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated.

Good topic.

Cat

cat wrote:
However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated.

lol...where do you people come up with this shit?! "Cavernous hole"? What the fuck are you talking about?! I saw several shows last year that were complete 20,000+ sellouts. Cleveland, where I had to pay out of the fucking ass just to get my sister a fucking lawn seat, had people outside of the Blossum Center begging for tickets. Dallas was very similar, as was The New York State Fair, and Chicago had 26,000 people in a driving rain storm. And don't tell me about Heart either, because they play Naperville's Ribfest almost annually and the concert is free. They simply can't tour alone. Journey, whether you like it or not, is doing much better than at any time during Augeri's tenure. The band continues to have a very strong casual following and the people that "left after feeling mistreated" probably numbers in the fucking hundreds...if that.

There's a rule of thumb that Van Halen tried to live by when Sammy was in the group. The idea that you need to leave them wanting a little. The idea being that they didn't tour every summer...they didn't play more than the bare minimum number of dates in a particular region...

the end result is that the next time the band came around, people were clamoring to see them. There was no "well, if I miss em now, I can always catch em next summer"


That changed for the worse when Van Halen lost Ed Leffler and they brought on Ray Daniels to manage the band....Ray booked them multiple nights in multiple cities...and returned to areas already covered on seperate legs of the tour. For example, that happened here in NY. They played on Long Island, Manhattan, Meadlowlands....then came back and did a summer leg where they played Jones Beach and PNC...

By the end of that tour, even VH fans were fucking sick of them.



It seems like Journey has done this since 2001. They can't go a summer without heavy touring...even if they claim they're taking a break. They still tour....and it's getting to the point where there's nothing special about it.


And this is before the bile left over by some regarding the singer changes....completely ignoring that fact, I do feel they're touring too much....it needs to slow down alittle.

Saint John wrote:

cat wrote:
However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated.

lol...where do you people come up with this shit?! "Cavernous hole"? What the fuck are you talking about?! I saw several shows last year that were complete 20,000+ sellouts. Cleveland, where I had to pay out of the fucking ass just to get my sister a fucking lawn seat, had people outside of the Blossum Center begging for tickets. Dallas was very similar, as was The New York State Fair, and Chicago had 26,000 people in a driving rain storm. And don't tell me about Heart either, because they play Naperville's Ribfest almost annually and the concert is free. They simply can't tour alone. Journey, whether you like it or not, is doing much better than at any time during Augeri's tenure. The band continues to have a very strong casual following and the people that "left after feeling mistreated" probably numbers in the fucking hundreds...if that.

Oh wow - Saint John saw some good shows - stop the presses.

Show me where I said that the tour did not sell.

I did not.

There are other people in the world SJ.

I am happy that you have found true happiness with Neal and the boys. It was not too long ago that you did not.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, other people are allowed thoughts and opinions.

Some are even just as important as yours.

Cat

cat wrote:

Saint John wrote:

cat wrote:
However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated.

lol...where do you people come up with this shit?! "Cavernous hole"? What the fuck are you talking about?! I saw several shows last year that were complete 20,000+ sellouts. Cleveland, where I had to pay out of the fucking ass just to get my sister a fucking lawn seat, had people outside of the Blossum Center begging for tickets. Dallas was very similar, as was The New York State Fair, and Chicago had 26,000 people in a driving rain storm. And don't tell me about Heart either, because they play Naperville's Ribfest almost annually and the concert is free. They simply can't tour alone. Journey, whether you like it or not, is doing much better than at any time during Augeri's tenure. The band continues to have a very strong casual following and the people that "left after feeling mistreated" probably numbers in the fucking hundreds...if that.

Oh wow - Saint John saw some good shows - stop the presses.

Show me where I said that the tour did not sell.

I did not.

There are other people in the world SJ.

I am happy that you have found true happiness with Neal and the boys. It was not too long ago that you did not.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, other people are allowed thoughts and opinions.

Some are even just as important as yours.

Cat

This is your direct quote:

"However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated."

Just who exactly are you talking about?!?! 50 or so people on the fucking internet?!?! I did not in any way disrespect or belittle your opinion(s) so I'm not sure why you're patronizing me. I'm just wondering who the people are that left and created a "cavernous hole."

Saint John wrote:

cat wrote:

Saint John wrote:

cat wrote:
However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated.

lol...where do you people come up with this shit?! "Cavernous hole"? What the fuck are you talking about?! I saw several shows last year that were complete 20,000+ sellouts. Cleveland, where I had to pay out of the fucking ass just to get my sister a fucking lawn seat, had people outside of the Blossum Center begging for tickets. Dallas was very similar, as was The New York State Fair, and Chicago had 26,000 people in a driving rain storm. And don't tell me about Heart either, because they play Naperville's Ribfest almost annually and the concert is free. They simply can't tour alone. Journey, whether you like it or not, is doing much better than at any time during Augeri's tenure. The band continues to have a very strong casual following and the people that "left after feeling mistreated" probably numbers in the fucking hundreds...if that.

Oh wow - Saint John saw some good shows - stop the presses.

Show me where I said that the tour did not sell.

I did not.

There are other people in the world SJ.

I am happy that you have found true happiness with Neal and the boys. It was not too long ago that you did not.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, other people are allowed thoughts and opinions.

Some are even just as important as yours.

Cat

This is your direct quote:

"However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated."

Just who exactly are you talking about?!?! 50 or so people on the fucking internet?!?! I did not in any way disrespect or belittle your opinion(s) so I'm not sure why you're patronizing me. I'm just wondering who the people are that left and created a "cavernous hole."

Journeytroll is one of them EdSotoAllTheWaySullivan is #2

lol @ Behshad. The only thing fucking "cavernous" about SATW is the space between his ears. I don't miss that dumb fucker at all.

Saint John wrote:

cat wrote:

Saint John wrote:

cat wrote:
However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated.

lol...where do you people come up with this shit?! "Cavernous hole"? What the fuck are you talking about?! I saw several shows last year that were complete 20,000+ sellouts. Cleveland, where I had to pay out of the fucking ass just to get my sister a fucking lawn seat, had people outside of the Blossum Center begging for tickets. Dallas was very similar, as was The New York State Fair, and Chicago had 26,000 people in a driving rain storm. And don't tell me about Heart either, because they play Naperville's Ribfest almost annually and the concert is free. They simply can't tour alone. Journey, whether you like it or not, is doing much better than at any time during Augeri's tenure. The band continues to have a very strong casual following and the people that "left after feeling mistreated" probably numbers in the fucking hundreds...if that.

Oh wow - Saint John saw some good shows - stop the presses.

Show me where I said that the tour did not sell.

I did not.

There are other people in the world SJ.

I am happy that you have found true happiness with Neal and the boys. It was not too long ago that you did not.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, other people are allowed thoughts and opinions.

Some are even just as important as yours.

Cat

This is your direct quote:

"However, there does not seem to be enough of them to fill the cavernous hole left by the exit of many Journey fans when they left after feeling mistreated."

Just who exactly are you talking about?!?! 50 or so people on the fucking internet?!?! I did not in any way disrespect or belittle your opinion(s) so I'm not sure why you're patronizing me. I'm just wondering who the people are that left and created a "cavernous hole."

Again the cavernous hole is not about concert attendence. And Saint John, there is more to life than the internet.

Cat

They have a date at 1st Mariner Arena in Baltimore. They are not going to draw half out of the 12,000 it holds.

Last time WITH Def Leppard it was a half house. Fleetwood Mac just played to about a half house there as well. Van Halen didn't even sellout.

This is just as much a reflection of the building as it is anything else though, but it is going to be a poorly attended date. The only shows that sellout there are stuff like Rolling Stones, U2, The Eagles, and stuff like that because it's so rare to get a band of that magnitude there. (We usually have to go to DC or Philly for big shows. Springsteen has a Baltimore date that will sellout. 1st time in 30 years.

The other shows that do well in that building play to a certain "urban youth" demographic if you know what I mean.

"Ask the Lonely" is quickly becoming my favorite of the dirty dozen. Excellent song.

Ed, is the 1st Mariner Hall that arena right down by the inner harbor....a few blocks north of camden?

cat wrote:Again the cavernous hole is not about concert attendence. And Saint John, there is more to life than the internet.

In response to the first part of your post just who exactly are the people that comprise the cavernous hole?

In regards to the second part...I realize that. I can't even fucking post a picture. Shows how important the internet is to me. Since I was banned at work a few months ago I hardly post at all anywhere. Getting paid to post was kind of fun. But now that that's no longer the case I try not to waste much time on here, much less do something lame like being a moderator. <---This smiley was supposed to appear in my original post, but for some reason would not appear from my home computer.

Giddy, is this your first attempt at a novel?

Maybe.

And I've also determined Journey's ultimate setlist, satisfying both the casual fan and me:

Separate Ways
Ask the Lonely
Guitar Solo
Stone In Love
Only the Young
Higher Place
Never Walk Away
Lights
Who's Cryin' Now
Piano Solo
Open Arms
Mother, Father
Signs of Life
Change For the Better
Wildest Dream
Any Way You Want It
La Raza Del Sol
The Time
Wheel in the Sky
If He Should Break Your Heart
I Can Breathe
Don't Stop Believin'
Faithfully

Gideon wrote:Maybe.

And I've also determined Journey's ultimate setlist, satisfying both the casual fan and me:

Separate Ways
Ask the Lonely
Guitar Solo
Stone In Love
Only the Young
Higher Place
Never Walk Away
Lights
Who's Cryin' Now
Piano Solo
Open Arms
Mother, Father
Signs of Life
Change For the Better
Wildest Dream
Any Way You Want It
La Raza Del Sol
The Time
Wheel in the Sky
If He Should Break Your Heart
I Can Breathe
Don't Stop Believin'
Faithfully

Well, the boldfaced items are completely unnecessary and tend to make even hard core fans go "wtf is this even necessary?"

There's a good number of great songs that can go in the place of the above bold faced time wasters...

"Wildest Dream" is seriously kickass live. In Nashville, it was probably the best received of the new songs (though CFtB is my favorite).

Likewise, Jon's piano solos are as well received as any of Neal's solos. Just because the guy may or may not be douche doesn't mean that people don't like to hear him play.

"I Can Breathe" is a pretty modern, mid-tempo song for Journey and sounds decent if not for Red 13's terrible production.

And "The Time" is pretty good, too.

Edit: Actually, you're right. "The Time" is unnecessary; toss in "I'll Be Alright Without You" or "Girl Can't Help It" or "Feeling That Way/Anytime."

Giddy....do you see a pattern here?

doka wrote:Giddy....do you see a pattern here?

Pattern?

I think they should include Liberty....

Scarabgator wrote:I think they should include Liberty....

WTF?

Don't you ever, ever (!) suggest that again, you bastard.

What's wrong with you?

Gideon wrote:

Scarabgator wrote:I think they should include Liberty....

WTF?

Don't you ever, ever (!) suggest that again, you bastard.

What's wrong with you?

Oy! Listen up, Youngling, Liberty is a fantastic song! (Not sure that I want to hear anyone but Perry and Schon on it, though...)

Line of Fire was always a favorite of mine.