Behshad, Andrew apologies...

Alright, I've listened to Bleed and Scream a couple of times now, and I have to say... my initial judgement was wrong. So I apologize for my post. I would not rate this album a 100%, but would feel confident in reviewing it at maybe a 90%. The production isn't my favorite, but overall I think it's a good cd. I can definitely hear Erik's Whitesnake influences. Now you can go ahead and say you told me so Behshad.

lol Nah Im not gonna do that !

Im gonna be honest , first spin I thought it was an OK CD.
By the 3rd time is when I realized how good this really is. What I initially thought wasnt really that catchy was now stuck in my head ! lol
This is by far one of the best CDs Ive ever heard cause every song is GOOD and I dont have to skip over any fillers.

Glad youre onboard bro !

This new Eclipse CD suffers from the same thing that Journey's Eclipse does. Too much guitar, man. As stand alone songs, both CD's are pretty good. Listen to them as a CD, though, and go all the way through, and you're left thinking "That's just too much guitar." Granted, Journey's Eclipse is the bigger offender, but Bleed And Scream also needed a better producer to tell them when to reign it in. I'm assuming Martenson produced this? It suffers from the exact same thing that Journey's Eclipse does ... a professional producer like Kevin Shirley tying up the loose ends and reigning in the guitars. Journey was really on to something with Eclipse (minus City Of Hope and She's A Mystery, as those are just pig shit from front to back), but Schon wouldn't listen to Shirley and let him edit those songs. Bleed And Scream needed an outside producer, too. As they are, I can only listen to each album mixed in with other songs. Listening front to back just doesn't work well. Journey's Eclipse has waaaay too many guitars, and while Bleed And Scream doesn't have as many, the playing isn't as good to compensate for the overuse. And those guys seem to like to put the same guitar runs in a lot of the songs. I'd give them both scores somewhere in the mid-80's. Journey's Eclipse has lost about 10 points since it came out. You simply can't listen to it without feeling raped by guitars.

I love the guitars on Bleed & Scream. But I'm a guitar guy. I still don't get the complaints about the production.
I listen to this in my car and it sounds perfect.
Comparing Journey ( a keyboard-bsed band with guitars ) to a Guitar band like Eclipse isn't just fair. I totally understand Journet fans not wanting all the guitars on Journey albums but I think Eclipse ( the band) wouldn't sound as good without the guitars. They're simply a more metal influenced melodic rock band :-)

Dan, I remember from MRfest you aren't a big guitar guy. When it comes to solo's and stuff. It happens to be one of my favorite things! I mean I enjoy lyrics, but many times it's the guitar that makes me feel a song!! I can't get enough guitar. I think people are just drawn to different things by what makes them feel music.

That being said, I'll order the album this week and see how it makes me feel.

Lynn wrote:Dan, I remember from MRfest you aren't a big guitar guy. When it comes to solo's and stuff. It happens to be one of my favorite things! I mean I enjoy lyrics, but many times it's the guitar that makes me feel a song!! I can't get enough guitar. I think people are just drawn to different things by what makes them feel music.

That being said, I'll order the album this week and see how it makes me feel.

Yes and no. I'm not a fan of over-usage, and the 2 these two albums are guilty of that. I can listen to the almost 4 minute solo from The Party's Over (Hopelessly In Love) from Japan all day long, as I can also listen to the extended solo at the end of Who's Cryin' Now and La Raza Del Sol. But that's good, clean guitar playing, working within the limitations of the song. Eclipse and Bleed And Scream go outside the limitations of the song, and take away from it, and that's just not good. Guys like Randy Rhoads, Hammett from Metallica, Watson and Gillis from Night Ranger and Neal Schon (pre-Eclipse) knew how to add to and complement the song. Now, Neal overpowers the songs by playing too long and, like the guitars in Bleed And Scream, plays sub-songs within songs. The guitars don't mesh well with the songs.

I've long been an Ozzy, Sabbath, DIO, Motley Crue, Triumph, Metallica and old Def Leppard listener. And those are my primary likes, not the AOR style of Journey, with the exception of Journey. Guitars, like any other instrument, have to find their niche within the songs and add to the overall direction of the song, and I just don't think the guitarists in Bleed and Scream and (Journey's) Eclipse were able to do that. In many instances, they pulled the songs apart, rather than tie them together.

Got it!

Well, I'll have to give it a whirl of my own and see what I feel from it. I know you liked the new Europe sound right? Start from the Dark? And they had a lot of guitar. I loved that album for the guitar work.

Lynn wrote:Got it!

Well, I'll have to give it a whirl of my own and see what I feel from it. I know you liked the new Europe sound right? Start from the Dark? And they had a lot of guitar. I loved that album for the guitar work.

Start From The Dark has moody guitars that elevate the song, but they fit well. Europe has always been good at striking a pretty good balance. Yeah, some albums might have more keys, guitars or vocals, but the added usage of one instrument didn't take away from the others or the song. Man, these 2 albums have the guitars, at times, just suck the life out of the songs. And I think they just needed a second set of ears to decide when enough was enough. Kinda like my singing when I drink.

Saint John wrote:

Lynn wrote:Got it!

Well, I'll have to give it a whirl of my own and see what I feel from it. I know you liked the new Europe sound right? Start from the Dark? And they had a lot of guitar. I loved that album for the guitar work.

Start From The Dark has moody guitars that elevate the song, but they fit well. Europe has always been good at striking a pretty good balance. Yeah, some albums might have more keys, guitars or vocals, but the added usage of one instrument didn't take away from the others or the song. Man, these 2 albums have the guitars, at times, just suck the life out of the songs. And I think they just needed a second set of ears to decide when enough was enough. Kinda like my singing when I drink.

Well you DID have a lot of ears one time.... and one of them tried to unplug you a bunch of times! But that didn't stop you! And your serenade to Behshad was very special, so don't be so hard on yourself!

Lynn, thank God there's no video of that (I hope)! I can say that pictures were the byproduct of someone well versed in Photoshop!

Saint John wrote:Lynn, thank God there's no video of that (I hope)! I can say that pictures were the byproduct of someone well versed in Photoshop!

+1

Saint John wrote:Lynn, thank God there's no video of that (I hope)! I can say that pictures were the byproduct of someone well versed in Photoshop!

Well, I don't have a video...but I'm not sure if that means one doesn't exist! And anyone who knows me would vouch for me that I am as photo shop savvy as.....as YOU!

I love the guitars on Bleed and Scream!! I wouldnt want it any other way

Dan I understand your point in regards of over use of guitars in Journey's Eclipse cause they arent a true GUITAR oriented band.
But in case of Eclipse (the band), these guys have that trademark sound that wouldnt exists without the guitars. I dont see it as over using the guitars , I see it as guitar based songs.

Nevertheless, I think if you listen to the enitre album 2-3 times you will totally enjoy this album regardless of your stubborness and your opinion!

I didn't like this cd, still don't but i believe it was more because of a style of music issue for me. I actually thought B would like it based on some of his music preferences. I just didn't care for the way they did the cd.(doesn't mean its a bad cd) .To me it just lacked things i like and had things that i dislike in music enough for me to not want to listen to it again.

yulog wrote:I didn't like this cd, still don't but i believe it was more because of a style of music issue for me. I actually thought B would like it based on some of his music preferences. I just didn't care for the way they did the cd.(doesn't mean its a bad cd) .To me it just lacked things i like and had things that i dislike in music enough for me to not want to listen to it again.

Now that makes sense !