Congratulations to Gideon

Gideon wrote:Sure does.

For the record, though, I am a fan of Arnel and the new incarnation of the band. Actually, I'm a fan of all incarnations of the band.

I'm a little outspoken on the unnecessary Perry-worship, given that we have proof that the guy was a major, major asshole (not disputing his world-class voice). I'm also irritated with unnecessary Arnel-, Soto-, and Augeri-worship, too, though.

But in Arnel's case, the guy seems to be a real class act. People can dislike his voice, it's their choice. I just don't see the logic in hating him when he is, in fact, a far better person (not singer) than Steve Perry ever was.

I don't know you, so I don't know if that's your stance. Just my two cents.

You don't know this as fact. I don't think you could ever compare the two of them and their personalities when it comes to their participation in the band. SP was a major contributing member of the band, and as such made some really tough - and unpopular - decisions, whereas (at least at this point in time) Arnel is merely seen as a hired hand. And his interactions with people since joining Jrny are all we really have to go on as to his personality.

Speaking for myself, Gideon, my issues with you in the past were related to your condescending attitude. If you are truly only 17 (and I have no real reason to believe you aren't), you don't have the life experience to talk down to others who have experienced things that you haven't, simply because of your age. It's very obvious that you are quite intelligent by reading your posts. But... your points will be more welcomed if you talk to people, and not at them. That's just my observation, anyway. I don't wanna argue with you (here or at MR), but since you guys were discussing it, I thought I'd throw my 2 coppers in.

Welcome to WTF. I don't post a lot, because I'm busy with my 17 year old (and my 11 year old... and my 8 year old...) But it's pretty cool here. I hope you enjoy!

DP wrote:

Gideon wrote:Sure does.

For the record, though, I am a fan of Arnel and the new incarnation of the band. Actually, I'm a fan of all incarnations of the band.

I'm a little outspoken on the unnecessary Perry-worship, given that we have proof that the guy was a major, major asshole (not disputing his world-class voice). I'm also irritated with unnecessary Arnel-, Soto-, and Augeri-worship, too, though.

But in Arnel's case, the guy seems to be a real class act. People can dislike his voice, it's their choice. I just don't see the logic in hating him when he is, in fact, a far better person (not singer) than Steve Perry ever was.

I don't know you, so I don't know if that's your stance. Just my two cents.

You don't know this as fact. I don't think you could ever compare the two of them and their personalities when it comes to their participation in the band. SP was a major contributing member of the band, and as such made some really tough - and unpopular - decisions, whereas (at least at this point in time) Arnel is merely seen as a hired hand. And his interactions with people since joining Jrny are all we really have to go on as to his personality.

Speaking for myself, Gideon, my issues with you in the past were related to your condescending attitude. If you are truly only 17 (and I have no real reason to believe you aren't), you don't have the life experience to talk down to others who have experienced things that you haven't, simply because of your age. It's very obvious that you are quite intelligent by reading your posts. But... your points will be more welcomed if you talk to people, and not at them. That's just my observation, anyway. I don't wanna argue with you (here or at MR), but since you guys were discussing it, I thought I'd throw my 2 coppers in.

Welcome to WTF. I don't post a lot, because I'm busy with my 17 year old (and my 11 year old... and my 8 year old...) But it's pretty cool here. I hope you enjoy!

Donna, just please promise me you won't start telling him to hold his elders in high esteem and all about karma

Maybe he should just apologize and plead forgiveness for past transgressions...and stop being a liar and backstabber...who is nothing but a groupie with nothing better in their life than drinking and going to concerts...

... oh, wait a minute, that was ME!!!!



Happy Easter, everyone!!!

Arnel is not a better singer than Perry. Listen to "Homemade Love" off of Departure and the bluesy low end Perry has. Arnel is all high end, and could never pull a song like that off.

I'm severly hungover by the way.

Ed wrote:I'm severly hungover by the way.

NO!!!! You were drinking last night???????

natalie wrote:

Ed wrote:I'm severly hungover by the way.

NO!!!! You were drinking last night???????

Shocking isn't it?

Ed wrote:

natalie wrote:

Ed wrote:I'm severly hungover by the way.

NO!!!! You were drinking last night???????

Shocking isn't it?

A bit.

DP wrote:

Gideon wrote:Sure does.

For the record, though, I am a fan of Arnel and the new incarnation of the band. Actually, I'm a fan of all incarnations of the band.

I'm a little outspoken on the unnecessary Perry-worship, given that we have proof that the guy was a major, major asshole (not disputing his world-class voice). I'm also irritated with unnecessary Arnel-, Soto-, and Augeri-worship, too, though.

But in Arnel's case, the guy seems to be a real class act. People can dislike his voice, it's their choice. I just don't see the logic in hating him when he is, in fact, a far better person (not singer) than Steve Perry ever was.

I don't know you, so I don't know if that's your stance. Just my two cents.

You don't know this as fact. I don't think you could ever compare the two of them and their personalities when it comes to their participation in the band. SP was a major contributing member of the band, and as such made some really tough - and unpopular - decisions, whereas (at least at this point in time) Arnel is merely seen as a hired hand. And his interactions with people since joining Jrny are all we really have to go on as to his personality.

Speaking for myself, Gideon, my issues with you in the past were related to your condescending attitude. If you are truly only 17 (and I have no real reason to believe you aren't), you don't have the life experience to talk down to others who have experienced things that you haven't, simply because of your age. It's very obvious that you are quite intelligent by reading your posts. But... your points will be more welcomed if you talk to people, and not at them. That's just my observation, anyway. I don't wanna argue with you (here or at MR), but since you guys were discussing it, I thought I'd throw my 2 coppers in.

Welcome to WTF. I don't post a lot, because I'm busy with my 17 year old (and my 11 year old... and my 8 year old...) But it's pretty cool here. I hope you enjoy!

Not a fact? I don't want to retread this argument another time, but suffice it to say that Perry ousted two members of the band for a stupid reason and produced a critically inferior album simply to exercise control of the band. He cracked the stone first. He then stopped the tour, telling his bandmates he was burned out and "toast." But about a year later, he tries to record a solo album called "Against the Wall." Karma reared its ugly head and (through a Sony takeover) bitchslapped the album into perpetual limbo. Six years later, he puts out "For the Love of Strange Medicine" and then tours (despite being "burned out"). The tour is truncated and then he reunites with Journey on the eve of them supposedly pulling in Kevin Chalfant. They record TBF (which is my favorite Journey album, for the record) and then wait for two years for him to make up his mind about a surgery that he goes ahead and has (after he's fired). And then he makes comments like "I never felt like I was part of the band" and "don't crack the stone." It's pure hypocrisy.

So, on that note, if we can't judge Steve Perry on his past indiscretions, then no one else can say that the rest of the band (including Neal and Jon) were pricks either. Meanwhile, Arnel has been nothing but a beacon of humility, even to those who don't like him.

As far as the rest is concerned, Donna, I don't have a problem with you. You see me as condescending, I regarded your posts as blatantly rude, bordering on trolling, but I took them in stride. I think the problem is, like I've said in this thread, people try to read into my posts, rather than just reading them. Text lacks intonation and nuance or even tone, unlike a voice. You can't tell, with any accuracy, if I'm being condescending or not.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm an extremely honest person and if I think you're being a moron, I'll say "Dude/Ma'am, stop being dense!" Just don't assume that because I use a relatively polished vernacular that I'm "talking at you" rather than to you.

But, yeah. It's water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.

I do agree that Perry cracked the stone first. Journey had every right to bring in Steve Augeri who did an admirable job the first few years of his tenure.

The BAND though, shit on the stone by overtouring and charging me $100 for a lip synched performance. THAT alone makes me want to fucking strangle Neal Schon. He's a midget, and a piece of shit who lied about tapegate to my face in the hotel at the Boston Marriott.

Then add the treatment of JSS to add on top of it? No forgiveness from this former fan. Schon also told me to my face that JSS was "the real deal". From my limited interaction with the band I think it was Friga who had it in for JSS the whole time.

Revelation sucked by the way. I can't even listen to it. I do wish AP well, and hope he dumps those losers and makes his own way. I will never be accepting though of hearing Journey songs with an accent. I don't need to have the band that bad.

Yeah, none of them are saints. But Schon and Cain get ripped for their problems; and the way they shitcanned Soto and Augeri was bullshit, agreed. But Perry enjoys a certain status of being immune to criticism, which is dumb.

Gideon wrote:Yeah, none of them are saints. But Schon and Cain get ripped for their problems; and the way they shitcanned Soto and Augeri was bullshit, agreed. But Perry enjoys a certain status of being immune to criticism, which is dumb.

You are right about that. I will never grant Perry a status as "The Voice". Ronnie James Dio singing at near age 70 is the voice. Robin Zander with Cheap Trick is "the voice". Ann Wilson is "the voice". All have longetivity at an amazingly high level.

For me at least, Steve Perry is like Sandy Koufax was in baseball. For 8 years the best there maybe ever was, but it wasn't long enough. A hall of famer, but there are better singers who can still bring it and have. That is no offense to SP. He is in my top 10 or maybe top 5, but he doesn't walk on water either.

Got to meet Robin Zander and Ann Wilson last year. VERY cool people. Both sing like they are 20 still. No one touches Ann Wilson...no matter what poundage she is carrying...the woman can flat out sing...and she is a sweetie.

I agree with you Ed...Perry had a great run...but lack of production in the last 15 years tells me he has lost something...

RVR wrote:Got to meet Robin Zander and Ann Wilson last year. VERY cool people. Both sing like they are 20 still. No one touches Ann Wilson...no matter what poundage she is carrying...the woman can flat out sing...and she is a sweetie.

I agree with you Ed...Perry had a great run...but lack of production in the last 15 years tells me he has lost something...

Heart are playing a little Bavilion in baltimore (Pier 6 Concert Venue) next month. 5,000 seater. Seriously thinking about taking Lori to see it.

You missed my point, Gideon, regarding the personalities issue. Just because SP's indescretions are more well-known than Arnel's, doesn't mean that Arnel doesn't have any. He may, he may not. All we know so far is what Azoff & Co have allowed us to know. I have no reason to think otherwise, just stating it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Making opinions and stating them as fact is the thing that has always bugged me from lots of folks. SP has made it publicly known that he regrets many decisions he made during his time with the band. Perhaps he's learned from past discretions, IDK. But using your logic, Neal & Jon are uber assholes for their continued mistreatment of people.

I didn't say Arnel was a saint. But based on what we know, he's a better person than Perry was.

And using my logic, Neal and Jon have been major assholes. I don't absolve them or make excuses for them like most make for Perry.

Using your logic, you can't really call any of them assholes.

Edit: By the way, it's good to debate with you.

Gideon wrote:I didn't say Arnel was a saint. But based on what we know, he's a better person than Perry was.

And using my logic, Neal and Jon have been major assholes. I don't absolve them or make excuses for them like most make for Perry.

Using your logic, you can't really call any of them assholes.

Edit: By the way, it's good to debate with you.

Good to debate with you too. It's nice to discuss something without insults, huh?

My logic was trying to refer to the concept that it sounds as if SP has acknowledged and learned from his mistakes, whereas Neal & Jon have continued to make poor choices. Neal's history with his wives is perhaps the best example of his personality. Even before I was pissed at them as a whole, I thought Neal was a jerk. Not interacting with the fans during M&G's, etc.

Regarding Arnel, he is innocent in all the debate about the buttholes in the band. All of us, even those that 'hate' what has become of Journey, and even those that make fun of Arnel, recognize that. He's caught between a rock and a hard place, and is seemingly dealing with it well. But it seems to me that since he accepted the role of lead singer in a controversial (to this population, anyway) band, he has to take the bad with the good. He's easy to make jokes about because of his heritage (and NO ONE can say that heritage is off limits, because it's in every day life all over the place and huge with comedians who use it in their shows) and since we know so little about him that's the easiest place to start. I'm not a fan of his, or today's Journey, but I respect him for his attempts.

I'm conflicted with my feelings about Journey, as I'm sure many people here are. Our love for the music and the memories created by the music will not go away, despite the disdain we feel for certain members or the band as a whole. I totally get where people like Ed and others are coming from, and I also understand how Stu feels in his loyalty to a friend. I don't fault either one of them for their feelings. The people that criticize Ed for his outrageous behavior don't take that into consideration, that we DO take what these guys do personally, because we have invested a large part of ourselves into them. I haven't spent near the time or money traveling to see the band as many of my friends who are considered pariahs in the MR/Journey world, but what I have done has been very special to me.

I hope you aren't as disappointed in what is to come with Arnel (and most of us here feel that it will eventually happen) as we were with either SA or JSS. It's not a good feeling.

Happy Easter!!